Part 76
Sitemap --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - 'More interesting items/ideas for a Bioshock Rapture MMORPG' --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - 'Part 76' --- --- --- --- --- Consequences ... : Did YOU Set Professor Langford's unconscious body on fire after Ryan 'gassed her' as 'a lesson' in her office in Arcadia ? No ? You didn't think he would really kill her, did you? Breach of Contract hardly warrants the death penalty (if Ryan was so ruthless, he would NOT have though twice about simply drowning Apollo Square and Atlas or Jack for that matter). Why should he kill Langford when he knew he wanted to confront Jack and pull off his 'Faked Death Scam' upon Atlas/Fontaine (and rebuild Rapture) ??? How do you know she was dead ? Did you check her pulse ? We saw plenty of other 'just pretending' Corpse-Splicers suddenly get up and started attacking you ... Maybe Ryan even told Langford to act that way and 'to make it look real' ?? With various system failures, and with all the damage to Rapture at that point, Ryan would be needing such experts to stabilize, sustain and get Rapture back on its feet. - Interesting Plasmid - "Play Dead" : Gives appearance of being dead (with realistic smell ?). It may not have been an intended manufactured result, rather just something discovered when some Splicers took too many different Tonics/Plasmids at once (or a test version of some Plasmid/Tonic was a flop). Frightening thought - for not all of Cohen's "Plasterpieces were the people dead !!! (so when YOU (Jack) come along and start shooting them for your own amusement ... they start to bleed .....) So they might have been just dormant and trapped - forced to be perpetually subjected to Sander Cohen's 'Art' .. a horrifying fate.... --- --- --- Memo - Add "Combat Roll" move for Player like Leadhead Splicers had in BS1 : Peak/Lean around corner will be almost a required ability (watch out, the Splicers will do it too). Much nicer to have options more than "Charge out and start Blasting" most of the Bioshock combat mechanics consisted of. --- --- --- Before there was Incinerate! there was 'Insta-Flame', "Zippo-Thumb" : This Plasmid builds a nice methane producing organelle into your finger with a enzyme based ignition starter and sphincter valve to operate with appropriate nerve linked controls. The Flame is fairly small. One might wonder how easy it was to learn to control this ADAM device, and how many people set themselves (or others) on fire at inopportune times by accident (people with nightmares/hiccups??). Product improvement was the byword in Rapture, with the inept and inferior products falling by the wayside. (Fontaine wasn't as stupid as Fink, he didn't produce whole lines of products that nobody really used). Probably more effort was spent in making the Plasmid product's in-body structure (embedded in the hand and arm) not to look strange to the customer (camouflage it -- Unsightly growths or even discolorations would be abhorrent to the "normal Rapture" customers in those earlier times.) This may be one of the reasons why the side-effects were hidden for so long. Weapon Plasmids, made later when desperate times came, had less reason to incorporate cosmetic niceties (and prevent side-effects) AND the Combat Plasmids ALSO made more massive changes to the users physiology (more to go wrong). Alcohol mechanism alternative - fire fuel ? (it is another chemical which living organisms can produce...) --- --- --- Splice This Sucka !! : It is likely many of Ryan's Security personnel were NOT Spliced (he didn't need MORE uncontrollable crazies) but most instead were being trained with the advanced weapons (Chemical Throwers, Smart Munitions, Traps, etc...) and tactics. * Limited Tonic use? (not as many side effects as Plasmids) * New Stabilized Plasmids ? * Medi-kits are ADAM based * A Setting for another Flashback 'side-game' ... (Army of Rapture) * MP scenarios for 'The Rapture Civil War' done in numerous 'pristine' locations (with little need to rework terrains also used in the main MMORPG world - just prettier looking - from that earlier time) --- --- --- Another One of Those "How Exactly did that Work?" : The Saved/Rescued Little Sisters in BS1 climb back into the Vent, but then where do they go ? Presumably Tenenbaum eventually gets them (you supposedly see your 'Rescued' ones in the Safe House later? IF you Harvested all then those are the ones Tenenbaum rescued herself). We aren't even sure how they crawl so far inside there (miles maybe), or how ADAM is even extracted from them back wherever they go to. So more things for the MMORPG to explain (and have Flashbacks and Mini-Game scenarios) --- --- --- Ryans New Years Eve Speech - "has been a year of trials ... and with that strength you shall rebuild." What might these 'trials' be and what would cause Ryan to use those words 'shall rebuild' with that inflection? Fontaine Shootout... (possibly the biggest incident of violence up to that time in Rapture). Was the food production at Neptunes Bounty disrupted (damage from the 'firefight' and the fact that Fontaine's people had been running it...) Huge criminal operation exposed. Extended criminal/conspiracy involvement with Fontaine's Smuggling being disclosed (disruptions of dependent businesses and involved influential people (corruption) going to jail) ? Takeover of Fontaine Futuristics (no mention of any other assets).. A 'philosophical' shock for Rapture supposedly with or without motives by their Founder more than simply stabilizing Rapture on Ryan's part (Alone_at_Last). If Rapture wanted its fix so bad, then was it then much better to let Fontaine Futuristics fall apart ?? Fontaine didn't seem the type to have any competent 'lieutenants' (who might have decided to "take over his operation by retiring Fontaine 'prematurely' ...") who might have been available to 'turn it over to'. But what else in Rapture would need to be 'rebuilt' at that point ? ADAM shortages caused by chaos at Fontaine Futuristics, until Ryan had the City take it over and reopen/run it ? It would become shutdown and the ADAM available to the consumers would stop. (Secondary disruption of fishing operations - food shortages til it was all sorted out ?) A whole lot of people going 'cold turkey' from their ADAM addiction and rioting (or calling for Ryan to "do something") ? Not a 'Run on all the Banks', but instead a "Run on all the Drugstores" ??? Other incidents (some catastrophic leaks causing casualties- Dionysus and/or others) ? Damage caused by Atlas's anarchists (already ?? -- though we don't really hear much about it - you would think stuff like that would be Headline News all over Rapture). Remember that Rapture is still largely in a state of Normalcy up to this point. The coming Civil War and its disruptions/destruction/mass-fatalities will be magnitudes more disturbing (but THAT hasn't happened yet). It just sounded good ??? (With no thought about where this actually was in Rapture's history... jumping the gun) Or just at THAT TIME the recent incidents WERE 'Big Things' for Rapture ??? --- --- --- Alternate Reality (Just for Fun Splicers have All Kinds of Stupid Delusions) : If Columbia 'Multiverse' was All A Dream -- THEN its still technically canon (and for once the RetConning makes sense... and actually REPAIRS alot of stupidity) A Ryan Labs experimentation leads to 'Quantum Stuff" and Sinclair gets rich by selling Penicillin, Zippers, Velcro and other goodies thru the resulting 'Tears', and drives Fontaine out of the ADAM business. On the Tears from Columbia appearing, Sinclair sends through his Cyborg minions to extract the "floaty thingee" (as he calls it) and proposes taking Rapture to the Moon. There, I just wrote a plot above far superior to that Timetravel/god-Elizabeth gobble-dee-gook in Infinite BS's plot. Of course, even better would be somewhat more REAL Science and Engineering instead of the Quantum this and Quantum that Crap that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with any real Quantum Mechanics (mere recognizable sciencey buzzwords about a subject few people understand). I got's a great idea -- A side world access to the REAL Columbia for the MMORPG (alot of the same game resources are applicable...). Player Creators could even redo the Infinite Solo game in a non-idiotic way (in an actual America 1912 manner) with more historical stuff and less pixie-dust BS, and a proper plot... --- --- --- The Large Game City (map) and being Build On-the-Fly - It is Still Finite : The MMORPG Game's concept would be for more realistic growth/development of New Rapture, and with successive Players penetrating/expanding deeper and deeper into the Ruins (giving the Players a sense of actually accomplishing something as time goes on, and changing contexts for terrain they have previously gone thru ). But MMORPGs run for years, and eventually you can run out of realistic expansion space. So adventuring must be 'in-detail' as well as with vast Vistas of terrain. The Player should be able to have an adaquate (possibly challenging) adventure in a single sewer maintenance chamber/vault. There are all the 'nooks and crannies' that initially are blocked which could lead to unexplored areas right on New Raptures doorstep. (Rapture was supposed to have 20000-40000 people so still can be quite large to encompass everything needed to have all those people exist). There might be quite an adventure just in the contents of a captured Splicer's pockets !!! --- Server 'Bubble' Scenarios for some (many) Missions : Players game interactions isolated from interfering Players (run in an "Instance"). Terrain/Props/NPCs assembled/built "on-the-fly" can be composed and rebuilt specifically/customized for the event. Less restrictions to match/fit adjacent areas, as it would have in the Open Server World ('Sandbox') map. This allows the Player to stop/halt the scenario immediately, at that point to be restarted later - an important feature these days for people who have limited time or intervals to play. (Stop and restart flexibility - allowing more complicated scenarios to be followed). Isolated simulation 'bubble' can simplify Server execution, as it doesn't need all the dynamic situational data to be passed to any adjoining areas (less server overhead), as opposed to when in the 'Sandbox' world scene there could be other Players seeing all the interactions going on in the Mission area. (Not a minor point when the AI and such processing is likely to be a magnitude (or three) more than current MMORPGs). --- --- --- --- From Jasmine Jolene page : "In 1956 Jasmine became pregnant by Ryan. She was hesitant to tell Ryan about this, so she asked her friend, Anna Culpepper, for advice. Culpepper advised Jasmine that she should try to become independent so that she wouldn't need to rely on Ryan's continued good will to support her. Frank Fontaine discovered this from the audio recordings of a surveillance device planted in Jolene's rooms." The problem with Audio Diaries is trying to piece together what actually happened from partial/incomplete information, which also can be severely biased (or intentionally misleading), when the info is taken from the recording person's point of view (versus a proper authoritative story narration). Was Culpepper more involved in the Fontaine-Jolene betrayal (the bit about stealing/selling Ryan's child)? That supposedly happened around 1956, but Ryan did not find out until much later (when did the stuff on Ryan's WYK wall started accumulating) ?? Was Jasmine involved in some conspiracy to attempt to assassinate Ryan ( source of most of the people up on Ryan's "This is what happens to people who try to kill me" wall later ) ? If it was serious political sedition, why not just send her to Persephone like the others ( why didnt Ryan simply have Sullivan just put a bullet in the back of Sofia Lambs head if THIS is the way he handled such people ??). Bad mouthing Cohen is hardly a sufficient reason, so there must be more to justify it (its insufficient if the writers just assumed it was). Was Culpepper involved in Fontaine's smuggling operation ? That at least Ryan had sanctioned the death penalty for, though he would have had it done publicly through a court. This (killing of Culpepper) apparently happened after the Sep 12, 1958 "Shootout" with Fontaine -- Sullivan still alive -- if the thing about Sullivan committing suicide after killing Culpepper has any linkage (and even that is indirect reasoning, as we don't really know Sullivan ever committed suicide, and wasn't killed by Atlas instead, or just quit). Was evidence linking Culpepper to Fontaine's crimes found in the Neptunes Bounty/Fontaine Futuristic seizures ??? Sullivan had quite an investigation setup there in Neptunes Bounty (to uncover the rest of Fontaine's operations and crimes and his co-conspirators and whatever corruption he had created). Was the Culpepper Killing something else completely ? These events are all so tenuously strung out (in the games meager 'evidence') so much that the author of the Bioshock Novel felt it was necessary to try to fill in more details to have the plot make more sense. - Some evidence twincohens2 has come to light which might indicate an alternate explanation of who killed Jasmine Jolene. --- --- --- Culpepper Another Sketchy Situation : "Anna Culpepper ran afoul of Ryan when she began to sing songs that criticized Sander Cohen, whose music she felt was little more than a propaganda tool for Ryan. As evidenced by the Audio Diary Musical Insult, Culpepper's criticisms enraged Cohen. According to the diaries of Security Chief Sullivan, the feud between Culpepper and Cohen intensified to the point that..." Note - Interesting that Culpepper turns around and does the same kind of 'propagandizing' herself (instead of talking to Rapture's Press with her complaints... Or is her talk of surrendering to Terrorists unpalatable even to the most daring Journalists ???) Where is it implied that Ryan ordered Culpepper killed because of 'enraging Sander Cohen" ??? Cohen hardly had that much influence over Ryan. She could be Blackballed, her disagreements with "Raptures Philosophy" belittled in the Press, but Murder ?. For all (?) Culpepper's subversive actions upto that point, Ryan had still not taken any significant action against her (using the tactic of simply ignoring her jibes, and not making them more than what they were). Might the reason for Culpepper's killing be something like : Ryan discovered Culpepper was a significant part of the conspiracy with Fontaine to steal the embryo (that would become Jack and was Ryan's 'flesh and blood') taken from Jasmine Jolene ??? That is quite a bit more personal (like all the corpses we see in Hephaestus, which allegedly (Novel mentions) all tried to personally assassinate Ryan). Look at all the crap that Ryan took from Lamb, and he didn't have her killed. He had to wait for legal proof of her sedition and then just had her locked up, and STILL he didn't have Lamb killed when it would have been much easier (and out of public sight... so it was more done to protect Rapture rather than any alleged vindictiveness). Logically, with Culpepper, it had to be more than just insulting songs. We didn't get the full story in the game to the extent that the author of the Novel felt it necessary to elaborate on the real reasons. The MMORPG could have a whole plot trail dealing with this happening (and have it be filled-in enough to make sense). --- --- --- --- --- BaS - A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Department Store : The Fontaine Futuristics riot thing (the one BaS Atlas got caught in) might make some sense (but why should Fontaine waste resources he could use later as Atlas or so easily be trapped before he got things organized better ?) How about a Riot by ordinary Rapture folk in outrage against Fontaine's criminality, or at least looting by those he had betrayed (joined by employees expecting to be out of a job or some 'Jubilee' for all the people that Fontaine had harmed, while Ryan and City Authorities did nothing - perhaps precipitating the Council having Ryan secure/manage that place until all the details could be worked out - again nobody could be found to inherit it...). It doesn't make sense for Ryan to just leave/lock in ordinary "Fontaine's" employees in the Store (most were likely just businesses Fontaine had purchased, and many people in other stores/facilities there in the Mall were not even Fontaine's employees - in rented space). Over a hundred people (?), including customers? Why would Ryan do that knowing it would be treated as an outrage, and be largely ineffective anyway. This was long before the Civil War started, before required measures against Atlas supporters drastically escalated. If people were initially rounded up immediately after the Neptunes Bounty Shootout, grabbing many of Fontaine's known co-conspirators (remember Sullivan had been watching them for months/years), then months have gone by since September and all those uninvolved would have been long previously released. The chosen detention location would have been well organized and crawling with Rapture Security -- and NOT that idiotic situation where the thugs are allowed to run free. There already was a very fine jail complex at Persephone to house the Perps, with nice PROPER security measures and facilities. So why waste a perfectly good Rapture building, which would otherwise make a very poor and insecure Prison ? Why effectively destroy all the other businesses shown to be in that Mall ? The Real Reason was that the Writers needed an abnormal situation in which the Players could have gunplay and mass slaughter could be done against 'Splicers'. Imagine if Booker had been allowed to shoot up Market and High Street! Of course they couldn't have THAT nice scene be awash with guns and ammo and buffs and crazy Splicers and preexisting wreckage... So they had to contrive such a scene when that kind of thing really didn't exist yet in Rapture (even Neptunes Bounty the scene of a good sized battle would have been cleaned up and put back in business to feed the city). It is all for supposedly 'Neat' game scenes (largely just a repeat of the previous games) and plot gimmicks forced to be like the old Rapture Failtopia setting. That in effect sank the whole story into the Abyss. Evil Ryan's goons coming to kill them all (late in BaS2) ? Why not have made it a rival faction in the prisoners who wanted to put an end to 'Atlas' trying to lord it over them ?? (Close-quarter City fighting can be nasty - usually 50-50 odds for everyone involved - bullets flying everywhere, shooting around blind corners in ambushes, short distances, etc...). Fontaine as Atlas was very thuggy and ruthless. How would he keep word of what he really was quiet, with so many witnesses? And that Quantum Floatyshit™ stuff. So it floated up (somehow Elizabeth had become a quantum engineer) -- to where? To 'dock' with the place it used to be connected to? Filling a balloon with gas to make it rise doesn't mean you can fly the balloon like an airplane. ( The 'store' being disconnected from the City's Utilities for months is a separate issue) . Better story - Ocean currents make the building drift away, and it sometime later is found wrecked on the coast of Greenland filled with drowned frozen corpses (but allow Atlas have snuck away in a smuggling sub he had arranged for, to have continuity with BS1). A 'Floating' building ? Sea current sway and vibration would make it pretty awful inside. Building SO tall and pretty, but the usual sprawled interior. And the 'Skyline' stuff was bad enough in Columbia. The whole 'sunk' thing - what? making Ryan look evil again? Just makes him looks stupid - if your gonna sink it then sink it. If your going to imprison criminals actually do it. Seriously they've made Rapture into the "City of Stupid" - a very poor ending to the game series.. --- --- --- Were the Orcs in Lord of The Rings Splicers ? Tumors, deformities, constantly enraged and violent and kill-happy... --- --- --- http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Survivor Survivors in the MMORPG ... or "Survivivors" as they like to call themselves... How many were there (possibly many in the other places in Rapture). We did not hear about them (in-game) because they survive by keeping 'their heads down' (away from where Jack or Delta or Sigma were busy slaughtering everything in sight...), and kept away from sociopaths like Sofia Lamb, perhaps even destroying city infrastructure between themselves and such enemies. --- --- --- MMORPG - MY 'Only Law' - " NO FAKE WALLS " : I have grown weary of games with tiny edge of world obstacles you can't jump/climb over (particularly if there are other larger ones or even the same ones elsewhere WHICH YOU CAN, and you can't see any difference). This is an artificial mechanism used by lazy/sloppy game makers who 'guide' (force) you along the path they want you to follow, and who could not come up with something creative or fitting within the environment to properly block your path. The Teleportation Plasmid would have made hash of such blockage, or make the forced manipulation of your path even more obvious. SO of course, it had to go, as a Player Plasmid in the BioShock games (it takes alot of work and intelligent design to have a generalized 3D movement system which would allow Teleportation to work). You have Floaty things in Infinite BS, but the Player is highly restricted (no jet belts to the limited Skylines and those few absurd Freight Hooks. (Seriously, they could have saved 75 million dollars and made it a Flash platform game you play on a Browser for what you got). --- --- Typical MMORPG Opponent AI : I've seen Dust Bunnies with more intelligent behavior than many of them have. They (NPC opponents) often stand around (and don't move) out in the middle of nowhere, forever, in what is best described as a minefield pattern. (so many because mass slaughter of the few 'stupid' opponent types replaces having to program challenging AI-driven NPCs). Many Activate at a ridiculously close distance (even when (LOS) Line-of-sight perfect) as if they are blind (As well as stupid). Some are like this because you can hardly go in a straight line and not hit one after just 15 seconds, so to allow moving across the vast terrains they had to trigger them at absurdly short range. They Activate, but any adjacent (nearby) NPCs do not (when outside of Player activation range -- no inter-communication, which if the NPC's move can at least allow a little tactics of waiting on enemy position and players picking a careful path past them). Some games NPCs when they spotted you would make a beeline for you and would get stuck on scenery features (no pathfinding) and that became a loophole (saw one MMORPG was like that for YEARS until they finally fixed it ... really really pathetic). NPC opponents who respawn again within a very short period, including LITERALLY right ontop of the player. Combined with 'the NPC minefield' this means player often has their retreat path cut-off because the path already fought thru automatically gets repopulated within a very short while of engaging new opponent to the front (retreat and all you do is get more and more enemies after you so their is little possibility for 'tactical retreats'). Shots that go through corners and obstacles (worst when YOUR return shots/actions ARE blocked) - that is a simplistic hit box issue. Clipping the scenery when moving and being stopped dead (instead of sliding or turned) - really annoying. Similar are one-step-up terrain changes where you stop dead (supposedly an obstacle) when in other places (like stairs) you automatically can pass much taller 'up steps'. --- --- The 12th Dementia : They say there are 11 dimensions to account for modern physics, but craziness goes even further... Stupidity is the 13th ?? (That for which "even the Gods stand powerless against" ). Columbia was a voyage into the 13th Dementia - Tears in Logic and Reality (sow it up using the thimble - apparently not). --- --- A Vision that Raptures Design Tried to Capture : http://life.time.com/history/lower-manhattan-before-9-11-classic-photos-of-downtown-new-york/ --- --- Why Bioshock Rapture would make a good Candidate for a Player Created Content MMORPG : * Sufficient Userbase familiar with the story/world. * Themes are based on Ordinary/known life/people : ** Generic 50's era people/society as a Basis, 30s/40s architecture ** Real materials/objects as a source. No need to imaginize whole new world (fewer dissonant details - easier to create specifications) ** Players are 'ordinary' people (a known quantity to keep the Fantasy Superhero stuff in check). You can still pretend to have that WTF element from the first game) * Not much existing Canon for that OTHER part of Rapture (when some 'worlds' have to operate within quite fixed themes, which Player may not easily add new things into). Huge sets of details about the City were missing or barely mentioned or vague. * Alot of game resources already existing - Creators can do alot of recombination * Fictional Odd technologies/etc.. already largely spelled out * Closed off areas (walls) compartmentalizing the Map (visible interiors are generally not too large). Too many detailed objects in one place can overwhelm rendering capacities (similar issue for AI/behavior processing). * Large Underdefined World, so can continue adding maps space (down as well as out - much more of the city was visible than was ever visited). Seeds from 'only-mentioned' things for some continuity (ready to be elaborated upon). Outside views were often repeated/reused so its justified to mot match them in significant ways (though attempts to replicate when possible). * A 'Before-time' history story situation which can be offered as Flashbacks (with Players being sufficiently interested in creating such). BaS only showed a small part of Rapture 'as it had been'. * Multiple settings opportunities - the 'World' can extend beyond Rapture itself - the Ocean and even things on the Surface -- Rapture doesn't exist in a vacuum (so a Pentagon Briefing room where a meeting is discussing weird shit happening off the Coast of Iceland can be presented.) --- --- --- Sorry, No 50 New Kinds of Big Daddies/Splicers/Weapons/Plasmid & Tonics : There are more than enough existing kinds of these (of needed flavors) without simply having something of a different name do largely the same thing. No need for a new 'Super' version of any of them. Definitely no magic ones that do things against the laws of physics. The idea would be to broaden what there already is and what they do (the world/terrain is more complicated ... more interactions, more uses ). Variations (ie- Big Daddies) can still be done to randomize appearance/behavior, make instances of them more unique. Plasmids/Tonic might have 'less than standard' results (misfires etc...) --- --- --- What Kind of Computer Brain Did the Robotic Little Sisters Have (Supposing At Least THAT Part if Not "The Bonding" Worked ?) : Security Flybot as example of where to start for similar programmed Features/Abilities like : * Ground Navigation, vent traversal/climbing (to wherever they go in there ???) Tricycle riding, Little Red Wagon pulling... * Target Recognition, acquisition and pathfinding ("Angels") * Anatomical precision of incisions and 'slurping' whatever, to access the ADAM in a corpse * Task processing - 'Tunnel Path Mapping', 'patrol/seek', 'process corpse', 'return and deliver' * Avoiding obstacles, static and dynamic (nice sonic transducers/sensors - ultrasonics etc..) * Self defense - Coordinating with other Security devices and Big Daddies "Daddy: Attack Vector Three. Execute!!" Manipulations of the Thompson Machinegun and Lil'Chainsaw. * Care and Feeding of the Sea Slug (the mechanism the SeaSlug lives within - since the Slugs are placed into the Little Sisters body, this may or may not have been a challenge to accomplish -- mainly keeping the aeration system from getting gummed up by algae ). * Cute statement speech synthesis (sickening sweet sayings were found to be effective in driving away more than a few Splicers). Come to think of it why not combine the Lil Sister with the Flybot ??? (experimental models in the part of McClendon Robotics behind the blocked doors....) --- --- --- Persephone was hardly a "Gulag' : Of course the 'Rapture Family' (however many there were of them -- we aren't really told) was only part of the inmate population (and we are never told what THEY might have done to warrant arrest and incarceration - from their later antics it likely was fully justified). In Persephone there were the criminals and the insane, the dangerously insane, as well as those who had sought to destroy Raptures laws and society. It is not made clear why Sinclair didn't tell Ryan about the situation 'down there' (Lamb taking over) so that the City could take control back (could do what they eventually did to the criminals in 'Fontaines Department Store') and clean-them-all-out/restore-order/secure-the-place. If Ryan's forces were too busy, then simple containment and turning off the air and power until Lamb and whatever other instigators surrendered themselves or perished would be possible. --- --- --- --- --- . .